Detoxing Naturally: Holistic Healing After Vaccines and Heartworm Treatments

[01:00:20:15 - 01:01:16:13]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Welcome. I'm Dr. Ruth Roberts, and welcome to another episode of Healing Tales. Today, we're talking about detoxing naturally with Audrey Moyna on holistic healing after vaccines and heartworm treatments. I am really thrilled to welcome Audrey, who is a retired pharmacist with over 30 years of experience, transitioned into holistic pet health coaching. She combines her experience in pharmacy background and natural healing methods, like diet, supplements, and light therapy to help pets and pet parents thrive. The other big modality she is a master of, or a meistro of, is aromatherapy. She's got a very unique perspective rooted in both scientific methods and natural mentalities, as well as educating and enabling pet parents to comprehensively address their animals' health challenges. So Audrey, welcome. So delighted you’re here

[01:01:20:10 - 01:01:30:12]

Audrey Moyna: Thank you. That was impressive. Gosh, thank you.

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DR. Ruth Roberts: Sounds pretty good, right?

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Audrey Moyna: Yeah. Wow. I didn’t realize I've done that much in my short life.

[01:01:31:24 - 01:01:49:07]

DR. Ruth Roberts: There you go. It's amazing what stacks up when somebody else is telling you about it. It's like, "Wow, that sounds pretty impressive." So can you share how you started? I mean, PharmD, it's like, wow, the grind of all that we think of as evil to some degree. I mean, truly, drugs are life-saving, but there's a lot of not good about what goes into them in terms of being sold to us. So how did you make that transition from pharmacy into holistic health and combine that expertise?

[01:02:06:00 - 01:02:07:17]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah. So great question. It's a journey, honestly, if I look at my journey, natural, holistic, whatever. I knew very young I wanted to be a pharmacist and so I pursued that. I went to pharmacy school, etc. I became a pharmacist and I loved it. I love being a pharmacist. I love helping people with their health. I love helping people with healing and just talking about that and supporting people. But I had two aha moments in my life, and the one was that I was created to do something with animals, and I didn't know what it was, but I have felt that tugging in my heart like my whole life.

So that was always at the back of my mind. I know God wants me to do something with animals. I just don't know what it is. So that was one, and then the second aha moment, the further in my pharmacy career, I realized that the sickest people I knew were on a lot of drugs.I started realizing that the side effects of many drugs can be worse than the condition that's actually being treated. A great story, a friend of mine, her mother-in-law was put in hospice, so they expected her to pass away soon. They stopped all her meds except for pain and anxiety meds, and once her meds were stopped, she got well. She left hospice, she lived another three years.

I know that's not the norm, but it made me question, are people on a lot of drugs because they're really sick, or are people really sick because they're on a lot of drugs? The chicken and the egg thing. That was really an aha moment for me. Then around 2014, I learned about, like you talked about essential oils, I learned about therapeutic properties of essential oils, which I thought was fascinating. They don't teach us that in pharmacy school. I learned that they don't really have side effects like drugs do. That was my starting point where I decided my family was going to use more natural options for healing rather than drugs for everything.

But interestingly, again, it is a journey. When I started on this more natural journey with essential oils, I was still very allopathic, Western medicine-minded. You'd say, "I have a headache." "Oh, use peppermint." "Oh, I have a stomach issue." "Oh, use this oil." It was still very much a, "I have a symptom and let's put a band-aid on it." I felt better because I was using natural things. But again, I wouldn't say that I was holistic or natural as much. Then over time is when more of that looking at the big picture and you say, "I have a headache. Now I want to know, okay, why do you have the headache? If you don't know the cause, then I don't want to put a band-aid on it.  Do you have a headache because you have hormonal issues? Do you have sinus issues? Might you have a lot of stress in your life? Now I'll pick essential oils to help with whatever's going on. Instead of picking an oil, putting a band-aid on a symptom, it's more of looking at the whole picture. To me, that is more of what holistic is, looking at the whole picture. That's where my journey from pharmacy, holistic. Do I believe in drugs? Yes, I believe there's a place for drugs. Do I start with them? I don't.

[01:05:52:08 - 01:06:08:18]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right on. That makes total sense. It's another approach to root cause. Instead of treating the headache, supporting the hormonal imbalance, for example. That makes total sense because what tends to happen is the polypharmacy just stacks up and stacks up.

[01:06:08:18 - 01:06:28:26]

Audrey Moyna: That I think is one of the bigger issues is that someone's had a drug, and then they have side effects from it. They get another drug to combat the side effects, and then they get drug-drug interactions. You get to the point where you have no idea, is your illness what is causing your problems, or is it all these drugs and drug interactions?

[01:06:30:07 - 01:06:52:23]

DR. Ruth Roberts: I think that's an important thing to think about too for most people. So would you say that people recognize, doctors recognize side effects as side effects versus another symptom? That's often the problem, right? 

[01:06:52:23 - 01:07:19:29]

Audrey Moyna: Exactly, yeah. Is that a side effect or is it the illness and who knows? Or is it a drug interaction? That I think just gets to be a tangled web. That is where I think comes in, are you on a lot of drugs because you're really sick, or are you really sick because you're on a lot of drugs? My mother is 90. She doesn't take any drugs. I feel that when you find people that are on a lot of drugs, they're a lot sicker. So again, chicken or egg.

[01:07:21:04 - 01:07:56:00]

DR. Ruth Roberts: It is tough. It is tough for sure. What we're talking about today are two common procedures, if you will, that happen to pets. When I was in veterinary school, I was like, "Oh, they're no big deal. They're totally innocuous. It's just a little Chihuahua you have to watch out for with the vaccine reactions."  So why is it that a pet might need to detox after a vaccination or after heartworm treatment? What are some of the signs that are going to show up to make a pet parent say, "I don't think that's a good idea."

[01:07:56:00 - 01:08:41:04]

Audrey Moyna 

Right. Yeah. Well, if you think about vaccines, you think about heartworm, they're chemicals. If you think about heartworm, heartworm medicine is actually a pesticide, which is a neurotoxin. I have a puppy that's just over four pounds. He is a pest, but he does not need a pesticide. I don't think that, I just think about it, I'm not going to give any poison to my animals.  So I look at heartworm, it's a pesticide. It's a neurotoxin. I don't want my dog taking that. Vaccines, vaccines of additives that can be dangerous, aluminum, thimerosal, they can have contaminants. Also, if you think about vaccines, they trigger your immune system. So you're putting your immune system into overdrive.

[01:08:42:04 - 01:08:58:00]

Audrey Moyna: So we want to do detoxes after vaccines and heartworm, just to help support the immune system, to support the elimination pathways. Let's clean out the toxins so that our body can actually work efficiently. So that's when I think of detox. The goal is to reduce inflammation, support our liver, boost our immune system, calm the immune reactivity, reduce the stress. Some people don't realize that these toxic ingredients and vaccines, they actually build up in the body. So when the burden on your pet's organs gets too heavy, they become sluggish. And eventually the organs won't be able to keep up. And that toxic buildup can lead to a lot of serious side effects, long-term illnesses, like we see. We see autoimmune. We see allergies. We see inflammatory conditions, cancer. And people don't really realize that vaccine damage can happen slowly over time. Or you're giving them every single year and you have all this stuff in your system.

Some people think, "Oh, if he feels fine an hour after I gave it, then he must be fine." So, I just want people to realize that that damage does happen or can happen slowly. Some of the signs I look for would be things like behavioral issues, GI issues. So diarrhea, upset stomach, vomiting, allergies. We often see allergies. And these are things that you would notice after they got the vaccine. Wow, he was never aggressive before and now he is. We might see ruddy eyes. You might see swelling or pain at the injection site way beyond a couple days. But we don't want to see that. If you get lethargy, tiredness that lasts more than two days, that's a problem. Lumps and bumps on the skin, I always keep my eyes for. So things like that, those are the things that I think about, the signs that I'd want to detox.

The other thing I always think about is that people don't realize that you don't need to give your pets all these vaccines. You can do titer tests. I know that's a completely different discussion. We're not here to talk about vaccines, but you can do titer tests every year. If they sell the antibodies, you don't even have to give a vaccine. So why would I give something that I know has drugs and chemicals that can hurt my pet?

[01:11:05:25 - 01:11:20:29]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right. I think that's critical to know too is that the literature is really clear since 1993 that the duration of immunity is at least three years and for some pets as long as five. But a titer test, so a blood sample, is a way to know how much, how many, what the level of antibody is against a specific thing. And then that helps you and your veterinarian make a better educated decision about whether it is appropriate to repeat this particular injection or not. So I think that's critical. And when we talk about symptoms developing, are they often within two weeks? Can it be, you know, several months? What's your experience been in terms of understanding that and some of the things that you've been reading?

[01:11:59:27 - 01:12:10:07]

Audrey Moyna: I think that they can happen anytime. So it can happen like within 24 hours of the vaccine. It could happen right away if there's an anaphylactic, right, where you start seeing the swelling. Some of my clients I have seen, like, I don't know how long it took to develop, but they got a lot of vaccines as a puppy and they've had diarrhea since the owner got them and they're eight and nine months old. So I think that you can see it at any time and you can't rule out that it might have been vaccine related.

[01:12:37:04 - 01:12:57:14]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right on. And, you know, kind of while we're on the subject, so if we wait to detox, is there a better strategy perhaps? Like immediately using something like a homeopathic remedy or some other remedy to break immediately after the vaccine to help prevent those things?

[01:12:57:14 - 01:13:33:07]

Audrey Moyna : Yeah, I think immediate, like everyone should do immediate, like, because there's no reason not to. Right. There's great homeopathy, homeopathic remedies we can use. I use Thuja, adored beast rebalancer before and for a few days after vaccines. Like I said, I have a puppy, so he's been getting, you know, his puppy vaccines and, you know, we're very good with doing his Thuja before and a couple of days after. He's going to be due for his rabies in a couple of months, and so we'll use the Thuja and the Lysin. I like to use essential oils. I just don't think there's any reason not to use these things that are safe. So that when you're going in for the vaccine, that you would have something on board to help support them.

[01:13:49:11 - 01:14:19:20]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right on. And I think what you're, the other thing you're saying is critical for folks to understand, you've got a puppy. You want to make sure that the puppy doesn't get all of the stuff, the parvo, the distemper, the rabies. So there's a rational use of vaccination, but we need to use them wisely and with our eyes open and be prepared to prevent any potential issues in the future. Exactly. That is super critical for folks to get in their mind. So in your experience, are there specific breeds or types of pets that are more prone to needing support or is this something that everybody should be considering?

[01:14:32:19 - 01:14:51:16]

Audrey Moyna : Yeah, I love your perspective on this, Dr. Ruth, as far as specific breeds. In my opinion, we should all be doing detoxing on our pets prior to vaccines and heartworm. I don't see any reason not to. I actually detox my pets a few times a year just to make sure their liver, their kidney, those detox organs are working well. So I would say everyone should be doing it. If we know these drugs might have chemicals in them, they're hard on our pets' bodies. I would just want to do all I can to help with the elimination, with supporting the immune system. So I would say all pets, but I'd love your perspective, Dr. Ruth, other specific breeds that you believe would be more important to detox.

[01:15:17:23 - 01:15:47:16]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Well, and I think that the small breeds are certainly more prone to vaccine reactions. And we're in this sort of catch 22 of we don't know how much antigen from the vaccine it's going to take to appropriately emulate their immune system. But I think really, detoxification really is coming down to something that needs to be done on almost a daily basis just because of where we are in terms of contamination of the planet. So it's tough, but I think that for every animal, we do need to support their system to be able to remove harmful products and byproducts and harmful reaction products to those injections. So I think it's critical. So we're talking about detox. We've talked about some homeopathic stuff. But when you're getting ready to do detox for your own pets or for some of your clients, what does that look like to you?

[01:16:19:20 - 01:16:31:01]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah. So again, like the big thing I'm thinking about is how do we support the elimination pathways, our kidneys, our liver, so that our pets can actually get rid of these yucky toxins? So I think about also think about immune support, like we need to boost their immune system or actually after vaccines almost like calm their immune system because they're so hyper reactive. So, you know, detox to me really looks like clean diet, right? We need a clean diet to heal the gut. People don't realize our gut is integral for immune function, like our immune system is in our gut. So we really, really need a clean diet.

And, you know, people don't realize a dog with a strong immune system, you know, if they have a clean diet and they have a stronger immune system, they're actually less attractive to bugs, fleas and ticks. A stronger immune system will kill off heartworm larvae. So I always think of immune support first. And then I think of cleaning the environment so that our pets are not exposed to more toxins.

You know, make sure we're not using pesticides. Don't use wall plug-ins that are fragrance, fake fragrance, things like that. So detox, I got immune support, a clean diet, clean your environment so they're not exposed to more toxins.

[01:17:46:20 -01:18:26:2]

Audrey Moyna: You use clean, filtered water. You can go online to ewg.org, put in your zip code, and you will see what might be in your water. I filtered my water because I don't want my dogs having all that is in there. I also think about when I think about detox and supporting our elimination pathways, supporting liver and kidneys, we can use things like milk thistle, Sami Quercitine, dandelion, CellCore has some great products that we use as binders, things like that. And again, like you said, I do use homeopathy, thuja and lysin, things like that.

[01:18:26:22 - 01:18:33:12]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Amazing. And then you're also incorporating essential oils, I'm guessing, in this process as well.

[01:18:36:13 - 01:18:40:18]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, the aromatherapist in me, of course, is jumping.I like to use right after a vaccine, I will put diluted Roman chamomile and lavender on the vaccine site itself. So that is one that's a definite go to. I do that a couple times a day for a day or two. Cilantro is a great detox oil. I love cilantro. I know other people don't. And it's one that you can actually diffuse. If you don't like the scent, add some other oils to make it smell better, but diffusing is really good. But you can also highly, highly dilute it and put on the bottom of the back feet or along the spine for dogs. Wouldn't do that for cats. Essential oils are safe for kitties, but we mainly diffuse them. So we don't use a lot of topical.

But I love cilantro. Juniper berry is great for liver and kidney support. So we can do the same thing. We can diffuse. It actually smells good. You can diffuse. You can highly dilute and rub down the spine, bottom of the feet. I also like to use arborvitae, which is thuja plicata. So kind of doing the same thing as we use our homeopathy. So I do a lot of essential oils for detox. And I also just use essential oils to help not have the pests around. So I use an essential oil pest spray. I use essential oils to keep fleas and ticks away. I use essential oils as a pest deterrent. So we don't have mosquitoes, things like that. So those are some of the things I like. I have a roller that I use if I find a tick on my pet. I'll put some of this on after we get the tick out to help support that. So a lot of different things that I like to do with essential oils for both detox and keeping pests away.

[01:20:38:07 - 01:21:03:28]

DR. Ruth Roberts: And I think that's a great approach if we work on repellency. So we just don't have to worry about stuff so much. Wow. What a concept. Let me back you up just a second. You mentioned about cats. And I think there's a lot of misconceptions about cats and aromatherapy or essential oils. So you said that you always diffuse for kitties. Is that the safest way to go for these guys?

[01:21:05:04 -01:22:20:16]

Audrey Moyna: The safest way with kitties is diffusing. Make sure you leave the door to the room open so if they don't like it, they can get out. Some of the other ways I like to use with cats is I'll just take a drop or two of the oil and put it on a rag or a tie and tie it on whatever on a chair, whatever. And then that way if they want that oil, they'll go and rub up against it. And if it's not good for them, they won't do that. So that's another way I like to use oils with kitties is just letting them do what I call self-select. I also use the little nasal inhaler things where you can make an essential oil and put it near them. And again, if they want it, they'll interact with it. And if they don't, they're going to walk out of the room. But essential oils are safe with cats. Not all. I don't use all essential oils with cats. I mainly diffuse. And cats don't... They have a different metabolism. They're missing some metabolism pathways that dogs and people have. And so that's why sometimes there could be oils that aren't as good for them and people get all wiggy about it. But can you use oils with cats? You can.

[01:22:20:16 -01:23:00:20]

DR. Ruth Roberts: And I think that for cats, that concept of self-selection or formal cognicity, like they know what they need, is really critical. And that's starting to be discussed more and more. And we're starting to think about that with dogs as well. So, I mean, as clinicians, as therapists, we make our best guess. And often what we're relying on is the reaction of the animal to what the best guess is to determine, yep, that's good. Or, well, not quite. But this is, especially with this modality, that's a great way to let them show you, yep, this is good for me. Or like, absolutely not.

[01:23:00:20 - 01:23:19:08]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, and I love that. Like you said, you can pick a couple oils that you think might be good for whatever it is and then let them pick which one they want. And then see how they react. Because that's the best way to know, if you, you know, I'm sure you know, Caroline Ingraham, and you see some of her work all about the zoo pharmacognosy. And it is like fascinating, you know, when you see these animals in nature and how smart they are and the little sheep that'll, you know, smash their head up against a tree because those essential oils can kill the larvae. And they're, you know, fascinating that animals will self-select.

[01:23:35:15 - 01:24:16:23]

DR. Ruth Roberts: It is. And it's, you know, we had that ability as well when we were, when all we had were plants for medicine. But we've lost that over time. Not all of us, thankfully, because some of us are smart enough to retain that. So let's shift a little bit back towards heartworm and heartworm prevention. So there's a lot of discussion, like, there are many pets that are intolerant of even the most gentle pharmaceutical versions of heartworm prevention. So have you had success with using more natural or holistic options to support preventing heartworms?

[01:24:16:23 -01:26:06:18]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, yeah. And it's what I use, right? So obviously, I trust it enough, because I use it on my three little pups. You know, heartworm, it's a very, very interesting topic. And, you know, people should go and read about the whole gestation of the heartworm and the microfilariae and larvae. And because it's fascinating when you see all that needs to be done for a dog to get heartworm, you know, and this mosquito needs to bite this dog that has this and then wait two weeks and then bite your dog, blah, blah, blah.

It's all very, very fascinating to look at that whole thing. The first thing I think about with heartworm and how do we do more natural stuff is that again, it goes back to the dog's immune system. Because if our dog has a strong immune system, it's going to kill the parasites, it's going to kill those larvae. And so again, boosting our immune system is one of the greatest things we can do natural, holistic-wise. Right on. And then the other thing I always say, and I know it sounds like avoid mosquito bites, which again, sounds kind of crazy. But how do we keep mosquitoes away from our dogs? You know, can we avoid standing water in our yards, keep the dogs indoors at dusk, avoid swampy areas when you're going on walks, use natural mosquito repellent, feed them fresh garlic. I give my little guys fresh garlic every other day or so because that will repel mosquitoes. So when we talk about natural ways to prevent heartworm, there are things that again, how immune support, keep them away from the mosquitoes. And if you can do that, that goes a really, really long way, right. Because then they're not even, you know, being subjected.

But also, there are great herbal heartworm protection products. I use Amber Naturals HWF, which you can get on Dr. Ruth's site. When you see herbal products, they are not going to say “prevents heartworm disease” on them. Because that's a pharmaceutical claim. FDA won't allow that. So if you're looking for an herbal product that says prevents, you're not going to see it. It's going to say things like, you know, supports heart health and things like that. Like I said, I use Amber Naturals HWF as my natural. And then the biggest thing, if you're using more natural, even if you're not, is testing at least twice a year. So let's make sure that we catch them before anything goes crazy.

[01:26:55:25 - 01:27:26:20]

DR. Ruth Roberts:  Right on. And for folks that live in the southeast, you know, and I've practiced in South Carolina for a long time, you're there for at least part of the year. I had a mix of clients. So there were some that did really well just using more natural, preventive methods. And there were some that had dogs that still got heartworm regardless of their best efforts. So have you had the experience of sort of combining using the pharmaceuticals and natural options with success and that really heavy infestation scenario?

[01:27:26:20 - 01:28:05:23]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, you know, when I think about, you know, those type of areas, really anywhere where people are just really like, I've got to do it. You know, we have to think about when is heartworm season in your area, right? You're only going to have heartworm if it's been over 57 degrees for at least two weeks in your area, right? I mean, Chicago, we don't get that, you know, too early in the season. And there are actually maps you can find online. And it says this, based on where you live, this is when you should start treating. In Chicago, it's June. And this is when you should stop treating, which is, I don't remember, October, November.

And so if you're going to do more conventional, you don't even have to use them year round, even though people say you have to use it year round. You use it during the timeframe that you are at risk. Admittedly, like you said, we've got that Southern Florida, Southern Texas, the Gulf area, you know, they may need to give it year round. But again, I think people need to be looking at what does their temperature look like, and if they are going to use the conventionals, they don't have to be given every four weeks, you can give conventional treatments every six weeks. So that's going to reduce some of that toxic, toxin burden. If you're going to use conventional, don't use the injectable. Don't, don't, don't, don't.

[01:28:55:12 - 01:28:57:14]

DR. Ruth Roberts: No, no, no, no!

[01:28:57:14 - 01:29:19:09]

Audrey Moyna: Please. Any drugs I say, if it's available anyway, besides injectable, do it. Because if you have an adverse event to an injectable drug, you can't get it out of your body. So don't use injectables, don't use those like multi products, oh, flea tick, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because that's a lot of toxic load that you are putting on your pet. So again, for people that do use conventional, I suggest every six weeks rather than every four weeks. I test more often, use the holistic remedies if you can. And again, try to avoid mosquitoes, try to do a lot with your tick flea, mosquito prevention, you know, those stinky oils and all those things that you can do to try to incorporate all that to decrease their chance of getting, of getting heartworm.

[01:29:19:09 - 01:30:09:12]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right on. And by the way, folks, what Audrey was saying about the temperature and using heartworm preventums every six weeks is actually on the American Heartworm Society's website. So this, right, so this is what the folks that tell veterinarians what to do about heartworms are saying. So there is that. All right. Awesome stuff. So we start worrying about supporting the immune system typically after something has happened. And you've mentioned a few things about supporting drainage pathways. But what are some other things pet parents can start thinking about to I think boost is not the right word, but really modulate the immune system so it stays in balance instead of having too much activity or too little activity.

[01:30:43:13 - 01:34:22:07]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, I think the biggest thing, and you probably hear a lot of us say this a lot, diet, diet, diet, right? It's all about our immune system starts in the gut. So we need to be giving our animals whole foods, kind of like people food, kibble, ultra processed foods. Those are pro-inflammatory. They contain a lot of carbs. They often can cause leaky gut. And when you see all of those things, it is taxing on the immune system. So the first thing we want to do is really give a whole fresh diet. So I cook the Crockpet diet created by Dr. Ruth. My dogs love it. They get so excited to eat. And if you're not into cooking, and by the way, I'm not the biggest cook. It's really, really easy. I live, it's just me and my husband. And so when I buy vegetables, oftentimes I throw half of them away. We don't eat all that celery and we don't eat all of that asparagus. And now I just chop it, I throw it in the freezer. 

When I want to go make my Crockpet, I grab stuff out of the freezer, I throw it in, and I can get it done in about 15 minutes. But if you don't want to cook, you can buy a lot of lightly cooked good foods on the market, raw foods, freeze dried rods. There's a lot of commercial foods you can use that are whole foods that aren't feed grade. Dog food is feed grade ingredients, meaning it's meant for pigs and cows to fatten them up. And we don't need to fatten up our pups. And so my biggest thing is, let's start giving them whole foods. And if you say, "Hey, Audrey, I can't afford raw and I'm not going to make food for my dog," blah, blah, blah. And at least start adding some real food to your dog's diet. Get some frozen veggies, cook it up, add it to their food, you know, cottage cheese, yogurt, they're just, you know, sardines, like great omegas. Omegas are like the best anti-inflammatory. I've never seen an animal who doesn't love sardines.

Blueberries, in the summer, when you're eating your fruit, give it to your pets. I mean, they love that kind of stuff. So to me, it's like, if I'm cooking, cut it up and I put it in their dish. So really, we just want to add a lot more real food to our dog's food to help support our immune system. So diet is the biggest thing. And then like I said, I like to add omegas. So I do that via, you know, fish oils or sardines or soil-based products. Probiotics are really important for our gut. And so that is the other thing I really like to do to help support the immune system, because it goes back to our immune system, or if our gut is healthy, our immune system is going to be healthy. And I still say we have to remove the toxins from our home, like if you're spraying the pesticides in your yard, and if you're using the crappy stuff in your washer and dryer, which is just full of toxins, and you're using cleaning supplies that are full of toxins, and you've got really crappy water in the township that you live in, then we're kind of missing the boat, right? We really need to be putting less toxins in our pets.

And then the other thing I always think about is exercise, right? Let's keep them moving. Let's keep their systems. Let's keep their lymph system moving, things like that. It goes a long way. What am I missing, Dr. Ruth?

[01:34:22:07 - 01:34:45:05]

DR. Ruth Roberts: I think you've got it covered. You got water, you got removing garbage from your house. And so when Audrey's talking about household chemicals, I mean, essentially what you're talking about is if you turn the product over and you're looking at the ingredient label, you can't pronounce any of it. Is that fair? Yeah. So that's a good clue. If you're looking at stuff and you're like, what is that? Out. So just because we're on this, so what are some great alternatives that are effective but non-toxic cleaning supplies?

[01:34:59:26 - 01:35:01:25]

Audrey Moyna: Well, I use essential oils. So yeah, that's my biggest thing, essential oils. You can make your own laundry. So there's a lot of different recipes out there with the name of it is escaping me. It's a clean… Do you know what I'm talking about?

[01:35:20:17 - 01:35:23:10]

DR. Ruth Roberts

I remember seeing those.

[01:35:23:10 - 01:35:42:11]

Audrey Moyna : There's something that you can... Dr. Bronner's Castile Soap. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can make your own laundry detergent. And the dryer sheets are really bad. There's a lot of yucky stuff in that. Use wool balls, the woolly dryer balls. And I put essential oils on to make it smell nice. I use essential oils for cleaning. If we're talking about outside and we're trying to get rid of fleas and ticks and stuff, we can use nematodes and diatomaceous earth or for fleas, I meant, yeah, and flea tick. We don't use Roundup around here. And my husband's getting a little frustrated. That's newer in our family. And he's like, well, what am I supposed to do then? I don't care. I said, I like the dandelions. So he just got a little tool that you put in and you step on it and it pulls him out. And he's enjoying that very much, by the way. Good. He's occupied. So, you know, use some of those more natural, the salt and vinegar and whatever it is, I send him those recipes all the time. I say, here, here's what you can use outside. So it's just a matter of you need to just think of things differently and start using cleaner things in your home and environment.

And again, I can't emphasize this enough because it's my biggest pet peeve. Plug in fragrances, things like those things. They're really bad. They're really, really bad. They have endocrine disruptors, hormonal disruptors. I had one under a cabinet and it completely ate away the bottom of the cabinet. Now, with that little thing under a cabinet eats away the bottom of the cabinet, what is it doing to your lungs if you're breathing it in? Ditch him. Right on. Don't say anything to me.

[01:37:03:22 - 01:37:48:04]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Funny story about those things. When they first came out, this guy comes in with a cat and the cat's got asthma symptoms and it's come out of nowhere. And so, you know, by this time it's like, okay, there's a couple of things going on here. So your cat at this point, at one point there was a treat that was very popular that had propylene glycol that was creating asthma like symptoms in cats. No, no, we don't have those. Okay. Did you get these plug-in air fresheners recently? He said yes. And I said, get rid of those things and see if the cat's symptoms don't go away. And he looked at me and he said, Doc, thank you! She will throw them away for the cat, but not me. I've got asthma now because of these dang things. But it was nuts because, I mean, these things are, the intention was good, but the content is really not good stuff.

[01:38:00:13 - 01:38:12:26]

Audrey Moyna: Whenever I see commercials with those like fragrance stuff, “oh, put these beads,” I'm like, oh no, no, no, don't do that. And yeah, just like nothing good comes from fake fragrance. 

[01:38:12:26 - 01:38:28:16]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right on. And it's like you were saying earlier, you know, if you're going to diffuse an essential oil for a cat, you want to have the door open. So if they don't like it, they can escape. Same thing for dogs, same thing for people. But if you've got these things all over your house, it's like, yeah.

[01:38:28:16 - 01:38:29:16]

Audrey Moyna: Escape that.

[01:38:30:25 - 01:38:41:26]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Exactly. Exactly. And that is, I mean, the fresh clean air is difficult to come by as it is. And then to have indoor air pollution on top of it does not help us so much. So one of the other things, as people are starting down the holistic path with their pets, do you have any tips for communicating with a conventional vet that may or may not have familiarity with some of these remedies, especially if they're skeptical?

[01:38:59:10 - 01:39:19:01]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah. And I'd like you, I'll answer that, but I'd like your opinion also, because you're a vet. So you know how vets will take this, you know, I always let my vet know that I try to use more natural holistic modalities with my pets. They're fully aware of that. I explain why I believe what I believe. I will print out articles or whatever. It does help when you have a little bit of training, right? So you know, I tell my vet cooking for my dog, you can't do that. You don't know how to balance. And I'm like, well, yes, this diet that I cook is balanced. And it was created by a veterinary nutritionist. And then being able to say that I'm a professional canine nutritionist, believe it or not, has gone a long way with my vet who I've gone to forever.

Just having that little certification like means a lot. So that helps me. I know a lot of people don't have that. But again, I think that printing out articles, taking them in like things about heartworm, why I don't want to use that and let them know what you're doing instead. I don't think that they want to hear, “Oh, I'm not going to vaccinate, and I'm not going to do anything, right?” If I say I'm not going to vaccinate, but I'm going to titer, right? I'm going to make sure my pets are protected. I'm not going to do heartworm, but I'm going to do this, you know, and why that helps. And I think that is half of the battle is just helping them to understand what you are going to do instead. And if the vet completely like poo poos you and like fires you, then you don't want that being your vet anyway. Right? So that's kind of like, and I've heard of that where the vets like, you're not going to do this, then you can't be my patient. And to me, that's okay, because I don't want that person as my vet.

[01:40:49:28 - 01:43:46:16]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Right. And it's a little interesting in rural areas, because sometimes there's just one vet, and otherwise you're driving three, four hours. So I think it's good to kind of feel out where the veterinarian is, especially if you're in that situation where your options are limited. And kind of figure out how, where is that tipping point for that person? And if you feel like, oh, they're just not gonna have, this is not going to be good. If I go a little further with this, then maybe what it is, is it you break that conversation into several pieces.

And, I think that's right, particularly. So the really big sticking points right now are vaccination and heart rate prevention. And so if you can go in with some information to your veterinarian about titers, about understanding what the recommendations are from our own organizations, and they are changing to be a little more stringent, I guess is a polite way to put it.  Then you say, Hey doc, this is the American Animal Hospital Association's vaccine guidelines for pets. And here's the part where it says about titering. I think that is very helpful so that they understand that you understand that there is scientific rationale behind the suggestions. And some of them, you just gotta, you just kind of feel your way through. So it may be that all of the things are not fit for one conversation, but one thing that is the issue at that moment, and then kind of run through. 

And the thing to remember about veterinarians too, is that right now my colleagues that are in conventional practice are up to here and trying to keep all the balls up in the air. And their stress level is astronomically high. We may not like the way the conversation goes, but if you can stay centered and compassionate and thank them for their time and for their education, then that leaves an open door for another attempt on that conversation. It's really, yeah, it's I mean, the suicide rate in the veterinary industry is not astronomical for nothing. There are way too many pressures on veterinarians at this moment. So you have worked with so many pet parents. And do you have one favorite story about a transformation from a pet that had clear signs of needing a detox, what those were and kind of how that transition went afterwards?

[01:43:46:16 -01:44:13:20 ]

Audrey Moyna: It's interesting because I've had numerous, like I mentioned it a little bit earlier, numerous puppies, eight to nine months old, diarrhea, since the owners brought them home, like I don't know, I keep just getting like the same clients, but those are the ones that come to me. And a lot of them, a lot of vaccines as puppies, as well as at least one, if not two had parvo.

So a lot of antibiotics, just a lot of stuff given to the pet. And right there, you're like, okay, there's a lot going on here. We need to start by healing the gut, right? Because part of the detox is healing the gut and getting that gut healed, getting them on real whole foods, right? Because the kibble that they're eating is just causing more of the inflammation and causing more of the issues and more of the leaky gut and more of the immune problems. And so getting them on a whole diet and then working to get their gut healed with probiotics and binders, things like that, so that we can get them to a place. And we did sensitivity testing to see what foods it is that they're sensitive because this diarrhea could be from sensitivity. The one I was working with, she said, he's had diarrhea since we got him. So now I'm just giving him chicken and rice. And I was like, okay, that's not balanced, but it's a start. And then she did the sensitivity test and he tested red for chicken.

So she changed it to turkey and he did a lot better. And then she started adding vegetables slowly over time and then using things to heal the gut. And those were just really in my eyes, like all of them, just like really profound changes that again, was probably just from vaccine and over antibiotic use.

[01:45:44:27 - 01:45:45:11]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Amazing. Audrey, this has been a really insightful conversation and I think helps to clarify how to balance all of these things. And before we wrap up, can you tell our listeners how they can find you and learn more about your work?

[01:46:01:16 - 01:46:19:24]

Audrey Moyna: Yeah, my website is audreymoynaholistic.com. So just my name, holistic. And my email is audreymoynaholistic@gmail.com. So you can get ahold of me on either on my website. You can book consults or contact me. So either one of those you can get hold of me.

[01:46:19:24 - 01:46:36:06]

DR. Ruth Roberts: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining. For those of you that are enjoying Healing Tales. We have more episodes coming up soon. Like us, share us, get the word out there, help us share the middle way for pet parents. Thanks for listening to Healing Tales, where pet parents become healers, one tail wag at a time. Want more tools and support? Head to Dr. Ruth Roberts.com. Until next time, trust your gut, question the noise, and keep showing up for your pet.