Feline Zen: Reducing Stress And Enriching Your Cats Life

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Hi, I'm Dr. Ruth Roberts, and welcome to this episode of Healing Tails, where we're going to talk about feline zen—how to reduce stress and enrich your cat's life—with the Two Crazy Cat Ladies. And I am so delighted, if you do not know Jay and Adrienne, to introduce you to them. So, they have been working since 2015 on a mission to help cats live longer, happier, healthier lives by sharing natural health tips with cat parents worldwide. From live shows to blogs, they've built an incredible community. And a really fun fact—they're also big fans of wine. So Jay and Adrienne, welcome.

Jay & Adrienne (together):
Thank you so much for having us. We're really excited to be here.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
That's awesome. So, you all have built an incredible community around cat health and happiness, and I think that's an important distinction. So, what's been the most rewarding part of this work—of connecting with cat parents around the world?

Jae Kennedy:

You know, I think—well, you can speak to this as well, right? The internet has been just beautiful—it is such a beautiful blessing, right? So, our motto has always been learn, share, and grow. And so, you know, what we do is we learn as much information as we can about natural health in cats and well-being, and then we share that. And if we did not have this access to, you know, the entire world—the World Wide Web—then, you know, we could only share it in little bits and pieces.
And with social media, we're able to build a community of, like—and I don't even know if—I don't even want to say we have built it, but—this community has come together of, you know, like minds, and now we're all just learning together. And it's really the most rewarding to me.

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, the most rewarding thing is the connection, is the community. It's just a beautiful space to be a part of.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
And that's amazing, and I think that's the—you filled a gap that cat people desperately needed, because it's all about dogs out there, and so thank you for doing that.

Jae Kennedy:
No, we needed it, and then the community came.

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, it really was a—you know, we actually started in 2005 in pet nutrition and realized just how dog-centric it was. So it was our cats that made us realize there really was this kind of gap—gap in resources and support and all that. So, yeah, we blame our cats.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
And they're happy that you did it. Cool. So let’s dive into today’s topic, which is feline stress. And I think this is something that we’re hearing more and more about. But what do you all think are the most common signs of stress in cats that many pet parents might overlook?

Jae Kennedy:
I would probably say the number one sign of stress that cat parents overlook is lack of play. Right? Sleeping all day. Boredom. Right? A bored cat is a stressed cat. And we didn’t learn this until, you know, we had cats that were like, they just don’t like to play. And it turns out—we’ve learned from feline behaviorists—that a cat that doesn’t like to play is stressed out. Because our cats are not made to literally sleep all day, right? They have this persona of being aloof and lazy, and that’s actually not true. A cat in the wild is not going to sleep all day. They’re going to hunt, they’re going to chase, they’re going to move, they’re going to exercise, they’re going to climb. If we don’t engage with them, then they end up being bored. And it’s actually, you know, a stressed cat—an anxiety issue.

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, I would add to that as well. I think a lot of behavioral issues are actually caused by some kind of stress—like aggression. I think that’s, you know, that’s fear. That’s something that’s bothering them. So I think sometimes we as cat parents overlook a behavioral situation as like, oh, my cat’s just being... you know—insert a word—when that’s not the case at all. It is that they’re not feeling comfortable and secure and calm in their environment.

Jae Kennedy:

Yeah, that also includes going outside the box—a lot of times, you know, if this isn’t health-related, going outside the box is often a sign of stress in cats. And over-grooming is another one. It’s very common that, you know, people are like, Stop that, stop that, you’re just, you know, licking too much or you're chewing too much on yourself. And they don’t think it’s a sign of stress, but it is.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
Right on, right on. And that’s the thing—that is why we’re talking about this—is that stress can have such a profound impact on a cat’s health. So, can you all kind of break that down a little bit and explain how stress—chronic stress especially—affects a cat’s physical and emotional well-being?

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, well, I mean, when it comes to physical health, it’s just like us, right? Like, when you think about it—stress is the number one cause of disease in humans, and the same goes for our cats. In fact, our cats have specific ailments that are directly linked to stress—you know, that are directly linked or caused by stress, right? Like feline cystitis, which is very common. Feline hyperesthesia. There’s a lot of diseases that are—all the studies have shown—that the only thing that it can be a result of is chronic stress. So it is, you know—it’s really important that we keep our cat’s stress and anxiety under control for, you know, health and well-being, but also emotional.

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, emotionally I think that’s the same kind of thing, where you’ll see them acting out or having inter-cat issues or, you know, something—because it’s affecting their well-being in many ways.

Jae Kennedy:
Yeah, if you think about it—it’s kind of off-subject—but if you think about it, like, we do that a lot. But the number one reason that cats are brought back to the shelters or dumped on the side of the road is because of behavioral issues. And if we just understood that many of those behavioral issues are actually caused by stress, then we could correct them instead of dumping them.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
Right on. And so—I mean, it’s amazing too—the number of stress-related conditions that we as women have that are the same stress-related conditions. So, interstitial cystitis, feline cystitis, Karens, intercat aggression—you know, that kind of stuff.

Jae Kennedy:
[Laughing] I don’t know. My nephew had to teach me what that was. I was like, What? What is this? Okay.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
So, that’s true. I mean, and we don’t really understand where the root is. So, there’s all of this stuff—okay, we know this is happening. What do you think are some of the most common causes or triggers for stress in cats? And how can pet parents start to identify what the triggers are in their own home?

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Go ahead. I would start with recognizing their resources and making sure their resources are safe and secure and a happy place for them. You know, when you think about how driven by instinct cats are—simple things like, you know, their food station. They don’t like their food dish right next to their water dish. That’s an instinctual thing. They don’t like their food and water right up against the wall because they can’t see while they’re eating. So, it’s a vulnerable time for them to eat.

Litter boxes—are they in places convenient for them and not necessarily for us, right? Because bathroom time is also a vulnerable time. So I would—you know, thinking about—a lot of times people will say, Well, cats are so easy. You just need a couple dishes and a litter box and they’re good to go. And then we put the litter box in a laundry room, and we put the food dishes in a kitchen corner. You know what I mean?

So, we’re not necessarily looking at what they need and what makes them feel more comfortable—especially when it comes just specifically to their valuable resources, including loving them as well.

Jae Kennedy:
Yeah, and I would also say lack of enrichment is one of the, you know, the biggest causes of stress in cats and anxiety in cats. Also, something that people aren’t talking enough about—and that we see all the time—is the direct correlation between the owner's stress and the cat's. And that’s it.

Adrienne Lefebvre:
Yeah, it is. It’s good to know—we’ve learned ourselves. And we’ve learned it the hard way. But we see it on a regular basis—those cats that have these chronic ailments that we know are directly related to stress. And then we speak with the owners, and we’re like, Oh... okay.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:
Yeah, I will never forget—we finally, in veterinary medicine, started talking about interstitial bladder disease for cats. And so I’m telling this lady about, you know, what she can do to help, support her cat feel better—reducing the stress, reducing the anxiety, using natural things to reduce the inflammation—and she looks at me and says, Will this work for me too?

And it’s like, Well, yeah, because this all came from the human side, because we’re having to beg, steal, and borrow on the veterinary side. But I think that is a really critical thing. And our cats are telling us things, and it’s up to us to start listening.

Jae Kennedy:
Yeah, they mirror our emotions.

Adrienne Lefebvre: Right. I was going to say, I think a lot of us cat parents really love the fact that our cats will sense when we’re not feeling well. They will come and lay on us. They will purr—that beautiful frequency, that healing frequency. We all love those fun cat facts. What we don’t necessarily recognize is how much our stress, how much our interactions with other humans—if there’s stress—also impacts them. I heard someone say that cats are so, you know, intuitive or what’s the word I'm looking for. They’re just so energetic. There’s another word. I’m missing it. If you think of-

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Empathic maybe 

Adrienne Lefebvre: Perhaps that. They will actually see energy before they see the person. And I thought that was a little woo woo for me until I came home from work once uh really almost out of my mind back when I had a day job. Like very stressed on the verge of that angry, almost crying kind of stress and walked in the door and my jack boy who is my my sweetest boy he puffed up like a huge gorilla just walked in the room. He didn’t recognize me like it was and that was a really powerful lesson. So when you think about living in a chronic

state of stress, when you recognize that, that is definitely one of the most overlooked things is how much our energy, our stress is absorbed by them. Yeah.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Right on. Right on. Love that. So, there's a lot of things that we can do to help support these guys and reduce their stress. And you mentioned I knew I love that you mentioned some of them, but one of the other things we keep hearing a lot about is enrichment. And that's a huge buzzword, but what does that mean when it comes to cats and how do you define enrichment for these guys? 

Adrienne Lefebvre: I I think about it like looking at their environment. So, the home that they live in, looking at it through your cat’s perspective, as a specific species, as their own individual personality. Every cat is different. Looking at that environment through their perspective. Everything from, you know, what's right at nose level to them. What's in their environment that helps them feel safe, you know, like going I think that we go around, we're like, "Oh, this is a cute little cat bed. I'm going to get that. I'm going to put it here. I'm going to do a lot of stuff from where we think something is convenient or putting things in that." So, looking at the environment  from the perspective of a cat as a species, as a little predatory beasty, and as a prey animal,  um, and 

Jae Kennedy: and  mirroring, right? like mirroring as much of their original environment into their current environment, right? So, you know it gives them that uh vertical space, giving them that exercise, right? Giving them the things that the tools that they need that they would have outside on their own  to enrich them on the inside.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Well, that makes total sense. And I mean, there's incredible YouTube videos of these really amazing spaces people have built for cats that, you know, they can climb up and have a walkway around the room and that kind of stuff. So, um, so we can make it super complex, but what are some really simple and practical ways that pet parents can start incorporating enrichment into their cat's daily lives? 

Jae Kennedy: You know, I think routine. I think I mean, so practical and small, right? Like if you haven't started and you're just realizing, "Oh my gosh, my cat sleeps all the time and my cat I didn't know I didn't think that my cat actually wanted to play." Like getting a wand toy. They're really cheap. Or you can make it yourself with a stick and a string and a feather from outside, you know? Like I mean it's it's and and just take that routine. Take a certain time every day where you engage with your cat, right? like just get them moving, get them going, get them going through that prey sequence to try to mirror that uh instinctive behavior that they that they have outside.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: And I think, you know, you can take that routine and that sense of calm that routine gives something that they're looking forward to. You know, everything from being more consistent about breakfast time, you get a snack, do you put out indoor hunting feeders with them while you're out, puzzle feeders, like something that they're looking forward to. Do you turn on cat TV when you're away? Do you like little things that are enriching? I think so often um you know, one of the things that you know about people, like I mentioned earlier, people think that cats are easy, easier than dogs. One of the things that you do with dogs is you take them for a walk. You know, 10, 20 minutes in the morning, 10, 20 minutes after work. If you were to spend, like Jay just said, that 10 or 20 minutes every day engaging, doing something that they enjoy, giving them something to look forward to, that is probably one of the biggest things. Yeah,  that is so enriching for them. Isn't that right?  

Jae Kennedy:  And routine, you know, uh Ohio State University did a study and proved that routine is so important for our cats. So, in the study, they had, you know, healthy cats. Um, and they I can't even remember how many there were. I want to say 30, but I can't remember. But they did a study on, you know, the cats were being fed and played with at the same time every day and then they um and then they took them off of that routine. And the study showed that the cats that once they were off their routine and they were no longer in that same they started showing signs of illness even sickness even though  like they were doing blood tests and things like that and they're like they're not actually sick but they were showing signs of sickness of illness because they were off their routine which just proves that routine is so important for for our kitties. That doesn't mean that we have to like to keep everything the same every single day and we know our schedules are all over the place. So, you know, sometimes we're doing things but we try to keep, you know, their food time and their play time and when we change the litter and things like that, we try to keep their main core routines as stable as possible to keep their stress levels low.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: That's so true. And that's the thing is we in Chinese medicine too, these guys are often either metal or water element and those are elements that crave routine and consistency. And so that's beautifully said. I think it and that's awesome. So there's a lot of stuff out there to treat stress, right? And really you are both huge advocates for natural solutions. So what are your favorite holistic approaches or remedies when it comes to managing feline stress? 

Jae Kennedy: Well, I'll say first and foremost back to the enrichment exercise is the cheapest way to reduce stress in our cats and ourselves, right? Because it's free,  right?  And it is a great way to reduce stress where you're not having to buy anything. We're just having to take a little bit of time and get that, you know, get that energy going. Then there are a lot of natural remedies, too. So, we have a product called Catcom Calm. It's made of 80 different herbs, 21 minerals, and seven exotic plant extracts. It's a great, you know, herbal way to reduce stress. There's CBD, which is great, especially for more chronically stressed kitties. Uh CBD works great. There's PEA is a great supplement that also helps with the endocrine system and calming the nervous system. And then there, we're going to be talking about this this year quite a bit more, but um herb gardens like you can literally get and we have we absolutely love this, but you can get calming herbs, dried herbs online or probably at your store and literally lay them down and let your cat self- select the the herbs that they want. And it has proven to really calm cats. Whenever we go out of town, that's what we do now. If we're going to be in a our cats are going to be in some kind of a stressful situation, we'll lay out a herb garden, right? We'll just lay down herbs of the you know that from the catnip to the valyan to the chindula, you know, like we lay them all out and and they get to choose what you know what they want and and they roll in them or they just sit by them or they'll lay on them or they'll lick them and that's how you know that okay this is this is what they need.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Loving it. But I want to underscore how she just mentioned it gives them the opportunity to self- select.  And I think that is just popping into my head. Um, and I always get her last name wrong, but Pam Johnson Bennett.  Pam Bennett. Is that right? Yeah.  An incredible feline behaviorist. Her books are like a Bible to me. Um, she talks about the importance of giving cats choice. Right. So, and I think that that is, you know, we're talking about things that we can do holistically to help calm a stressful cat. We've already identified it. I think it's really exciting though too to go into a relationship with your cat by giving them a choice, you know, like if and with one of our cats, with many of our cats, she wants to choose where she's going to eat her meal every  day.  Every day she has a different place she wants to eat her meal and you'll just follow her around till she finds a spot. So, I think, you know, that self- selection, doing things that are knowingly calming, you know, great herbs or a supplement to really help take the edge off naturally, but also just exploring the power of giving your cat a choice between certain things, that self- selection. Really awesome.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: And that makes total sense. And I think, you know, whether we're talking about cats, dogs, humans, to be at choice reduces your stress level tremendously. So that is super cool. So that's it. I mean, you know, you say herb gardens, I'm thinking plants, but really it can be dried herbs as well. How easy is that? 

Yep.  They love it. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Cool. So, what else is up your sleeve of tricks for these guys for supplements? As if that wasn’t enough. 

Jae Kennedy: Yeah. I mean, you know, we we

Adrienne Lefebvre: box rescue remedy.  

Jae Kennedy: Oh, yes. You know, we've had great results with that, too.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yeah. our homeopathic or our holistic vet back in the day had a box rescue remedy that she put on topically.  So it was 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Interesting.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yeah. So it was and it was a noticeable difference for you know it had effect for a certain amount of time. So it was helpful.  

Jae Kennedy: Also um classical music.  Oh my god. It's so in college I did a thesis on music therapy because it's been a really big thing for me. I use music as my therapy. But the study I can't remember where we even it's so long ago now. It's probably almost 10 years ago. We heard about the uh the power of classical music specifically, but calming music, right? But our cats actually like jazz a bit more. And then when you go to Cat TV now, they have like a cat radio, that's even played in our vets office, right? Where it's this it's almost like spa music,  but it's been also proven to help calm cats. In fact, um we spoke when we first did this, gosh, I guess it was 2017,  we did a cat tip about we did a cat tip on certain ways that you can help your cat getting to the vet, play classical music in the car, you know, so that they're not so stressed on that on the way. And we had someone come up to us. It's still the most rewarding first most rewarding moment was this girl came up to us and she was like, "I just want to thank you." She was almost in tears. She was like, "I just want to thank you so much. You helped me save my cat from cancer." And we were like, "How?" And she was like, she's like, "You did a cat tip on music therapy for cats." And I was unable. I knew he had an issue, but I could not get him to the vet because he was so stressed. But I was able to play classical music, get him to the vet, and catch this cancer before it took off. And I was just like, "Wow." Like that's the power. Small little things, right?  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Wow. That's amazing. Amazing stuff. Cool. So, all right. There's supplements, but then let's talk about what's really kind of the day-to- day thing that can make a huge impact for cats, and that's diet, nutrition. How can we use that to reduce stress and promote overall well-being in our kitties?  

Jae Kennedy: Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess understanding it first is the most important, right? So, understanding the gut brain access that the connection that we have and we can better understand it especially in 2025, right? We can better understand it because of ourselves. We understand that, you know, if we’re eating a very unhealthy diet, highly processed diet, even our doctors will now tell us you need to clean up your diet if you want to reduce your stress, right? And we know  

Adrienne Lefebvre: how much inflammation is caused by what we put in you  right,  it's just exasperating. So when you look at how many cats are eating a diet that is not even species appropriate, right?  

Jae Kennedy: And that's full of carbs and starches and all the things that create inflammation in the body. That's, you know, that it's going to be directly correlated to stress. So, cleaning up their diet is huge in not just their longevity and health and all of that, but their emotional well-being and their stress levels for sure.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: I think it's really overlooked. This is something that when we started switching up our diet, I was like, why are we doing that? This is so inconvenient. Like, I really think the cheapest, easiest way was like the best way. But why would you ever think Dr. Karen Becker says that why would you feed your cat or dog anything other than cat or dog food? It is what it is. You go into any supermarket, there's a bag of this. It's relatively affordable. It was really crazy to me to realize just how much when you start looking at ingredients, when you start realizing how much food impacts not just health, but their emotional well-being, everything when and like Jason said, as humans, we see this when we're traveling, when we're eating crap, basically  just last week,  little more edgy, little less focused, just fatigued, you know what I mean? Like that feeling it comes out. It's doing something to my health, but it's always doing it's also doing something to my attitude.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Yeah. Right on. Right on. It's literally changing your neurotransmitters. And how in the world did we ever think that feeding cats the equivalent of Doritos with all the colorings was a good idea. 

Jae Kennedy: Hmmm, I don't know why people still think that it cleans their teeth either, but  

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  Well, there you are. Myths. Myths die hard.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: They do. They do. And I think looking at diet is seeing the change. I think you know you can only encourage someone so much to you know say hey I think you know think about it like this with cats. I mean I know that cats and dogs are kind of companion animals. They are so super different species right they have.. “ain’t that right Annie B.?” Yeah.  They have different needs. I often think about what we've learned about cats. I really think that we should have gone into this 20 almost 30 years ago with like what do cats eat? Like where's the book on this? If I were going to get an African parrot or a gecko or something, I would be looking into a book like what do they eat? When do they eat? Where do they make their bed? How do they like their resources? 

Jae Kennedy: Right.  Where should they stay? What you know all the things that you know about cats and dogs is just kind of like, oh, I could get a cat. 

Adrienne Lefebvre: That's  a cute little love loaf. Not recognizing how significant it is. I give them the appropriate kind of food to look at what they need as a species as far as where they feel safe and when they want to sleep and all that kind of stuff. So, um yeah, and diet being one of the biggest things. And that was a really big challenge for me. I was going to tell us.  There's the truth.  It was me.  Right on.  It's one thing to go from dry food to wet food. Totally different ball game when you say the raw word and it can be so scary. And it was for me and the trans trans transitioning our cats can be a challenge but when you see the difference um there's  

Jae Kennedy:  They're like whole new cats and it's not just their skin and coat and their eyes are brighter and all of that stuff but  they're moving around now they want to play more now they you know they're not aloof anymore you know because they because they have the nutrition they need. 

Adrienne Lefebvre:  I think you just said it best. I want to do a more concise cut tip on this. You know we're talking about what we eat on vacation or whatever. you're switching up their neurotransmitters, you know, when you are dealing with a challenging issue with your cat. And we do ask, you know, what are you feeding them, right? Like, is it something that's not helpful,  right?  But just how much it can impact your cat's personality. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Right on. Right on. And I think that's always the first place to start. And it's hard, too, because I mean, ultimately, we've created little carb junkies. um because the way we've been feeding with commercial food and that transition can be really painful. 

Jae Kennedy: Challenge.  Challenging.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Challenging. Yeah, that's a good way to put it.  

Jae Kennedy: It's not impossible. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: No, it just takes a lot of patience. One of my own cats, it took me six months to take her from dry to canned and then another three months to go from canned to cooked. Have you had that experience?  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yes.  Yep. We have had. When you have multiple cats, it's it's like it feels like a never- ending challenge because you have the oldest cat at the time. He transitioned to raw without any like no loose. Everyone's like, "Oh, my cat's going to get diarrhea." Oh, they're worried about throwing up. He was 18.  18  at the time, which within a week he was ready for 

Jae Kennedy: He was like, "This is what my body needs."  Yes.  And we thought that he was going to be the hardest, right? and our youngest would be the easiest, but our youngest was actually the one that took us 6, seven, eight months to fully transition over.  

Adrienne Lefebvre:  We had already been incorporating some wet food, but going raw was like, "Excuse me, no."  Yep.  And and 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Have you lost your mind? Yeah. Right on.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yeah. So, and it is, you know, worth mentioning this isn't like a dog. Here's a big difference between dogs and cats. If you put something down in front of your dog and they don't want to eat it, you're like, "Okay, well, you'll eat it when you're hungry." Cats, if they are really only super focused on like they only know kibble as food or they only know wet food as food, they are scared of eating another food and it can take

Jae Kennedy: and they will in fact starve themselves to death.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Right. And you don't want to go  make themselves right. Yeah. Make them really sick. Correct. Exactly.  Yeah.  Yeah. So, and that's it. I mean, so again, we're disrupting their routine. Like, this is what I know. I'm really good with this. Please do not mess with this.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yeah.  Right.  

Jae Kennedy: Yeah. We have to be gentle, patience and perseverance.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: And that's a whole another podcast like trying to get into the transition because we've learned some really cool tricks. And it's mostly, like you said, it's the patience. It's perseverance. We are our cat's only choice for what they put in their bodies. So, let's just It's not about, oh, my cat won't do this. No, it's about what I am willing to do to help my cat better understand what it really needs.  Well said. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Well said. Cool. So, one last question kind of in this area. Are there specific products or tools that you found particularly helpful for helping them feel more relaxed and secure? Like I love post electromagnetic frequency mats and maybe there's some other tricks you guys have as well. 

Adrienne Lefebvre: We have underutilized those for  Thank you for that reminder. 

Jae Kennedy: Yeah, for a twist. We PMF PEMF. Is that right? Yeah,  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: You got it.  

Jae Kennedy: Yeah, we  Yeah, there's I mean there are a lot I'm drawing a blank on what all has what all we've learned along the way that we haven't already discussed. Um, but 

Adrienne Lefebvre: Yeah, I mean I feel like we definitely, you know, a lot of people have a super stressed cat and they're always like, "Well, the vet just put him on Gabent or Kitty." And I think that, you know, they kind of when you realize there's a stressor, it's really important and and sometimes this means meeting with the feline behaviorist to better understand what that root of the stress is. Sometimes it is as simple as offering them, you know, a hidey-hole in their favorite room or a vertical space in a more busy room so that they have space. I know with us  

Jae Kennedy: or opening a window and putting a bird feeder outside to where  

Adrienne Lefebvre: It’s is really simple, you know, 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Well it keeps them interactive, right? I get it. 

Jae Kennedy: Yeah. Stimulation. 

Adrienne Lefebvre: So under yeah I would say it's really really important if you have to even if it means meeting with a feline behaviorist better try to understand what's causing the stress so that you can help mitigate that and then just give them a choice. I know when it comes to us our pubar when he came to us was a very um scared cat. 

Jae Kennedy: She almost said aggressive but  

Adrienne Lefebvre: Well he was very aggressive, he was like the epitome of a cornered cat. It was very sad but also very scary. Uh so for us there were a number of things that went into that but we had great success with our catcom and with play sessions. Uh we've learned a lot. Pooberry was an incredible teacher to us. And so it is about you know in this world of a pill for every ill. I would really encourage people not just to go for the pharmaceuticals if they know their cat is stressed. try to find the root cause and then be patient as you help build their confidence and find the ways that help them feel happiest and healthiest and secure in their home.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Right on. And I love what you all are bringing up. I mean, because there's like all the lists of things, the dads, the whatnotss, and the thingyamajiggers that you can buy, but so much of this is just simple and looking at what's going on in your environment. Uh, so that you can start to,  like you said, to start with, see this from your cat's perspective. And I think that is super critical. So, is there a resource that you send people to when they're like, I need to work with the cat behaviors and I don't even know where to start. Is that Have you got a list of folks on your site that you can send them to or how does that work for you?  

Jae Kennedy: We do. And there are so I mean there it's just ever growing, right? There are so many beautiful feline behaviorists out there now. First, we only knew of one and now it's like probably 20, right? That 's like, well, here's, you know, find a feline behaviorist because they specialize in thinking from a cat's perspective, right? Thinking like a cat.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: And if you know, if it's something that you I know a lot of people in our community have said, "Oh, there's no way I could ever afford that." You know, I don't have an extra $200, $300 to figure out what's bothering my cat. You know, I'm going to get a book. I mean, you know, Pam Johnson Bennett Bennett's book, Cat Versus Cat, so great for multi-cat households, but also for just better understanding cats, you know, giving them a choice, understanding their resources. I'm not sure that we would agree fully on like dietary snacks and stuff like that, but I think incredible insight into better understanding our felines as individuals, I think. So, there's always something that you can be doing to better learn your little one. But I think you are right. It is about keeping it simple at first. And I think a lot of times we meet people in that space where it's like well I don't know what to do. Feline behaviorists are I think one of the most underutilized resources for us because cats can be difficult to understand. This one's starting to play fetch with us right now.  

Jae Kennedy: Right now. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: That's awesome. And I think you know the other thing you brought up with multicats households. That's where it gets really complex. If you've got one cat, that's one thing. But multicats, you've got two, three, four different personalities and then trying to sort out who needs what and who's interacting with another one in a way that's not so healthy and all of those things. So it really gets complex then.  

Jae Kennedy: Yeah, it definitely is definitely more complex. 

Adrienne Lefebvre: We are learning more and more how complex it can be.  Yes. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Yes, it gets it does get interesting and I think you know I had seven cats at one point but I was in an area where they could be indoor outdoor cats and they were safe and I think that's where there's a lot of stress for these guys. But you all just created an amazing resource for your kitties so they can get some outside time.  

Jae Kennedy: We did, we built a pretty sizable patio for them  finally. We've been wanting to do this for a really long time, but it's not cheap and to, you know, to do it  correctly.  So, we saved up for a while, but we finally have that. We also have all like you were talking about all the,  you know, the steps and the what we call the superhighway around, you know, our great room, places for them to climb throughout the house, too. Yeah. We are basically our house, you don't walk in and think that we don't have cats. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: There's no two ways about it. 

Jae Kennedy:  Right. And you're like, "Wow, you got stuff in things." 

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  And the cats are happy.  

Jae Kennedy: Yes. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: The most important 

Jae Kennedy: Most of the time, 

Adrienne Lefebvre: Right.

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Well, there's always that. Yeah. So, you all have worked with so many kitties over the years. Do you have a favorite success story of a stressed out kitty who really was able to transform thanks to enrichment or suggestions that you were able to make for the pet parent? 

Jae Kennedy:  I honestly have to say it was our own cat Pooh Bear. Um because like Adrian said, he was he came to us a very aggressive kitty  like to the point where we wear like you have to wear like gloves and an overcoat in order to  

Adrienne Lefebvre:  he says you she means me.  

Jae Kennedy: Correct. I wasn't going to do that.  My anxiety was too high. I knew that this was not going to work if I tried to approach him because I was too fearful of him and she was able to stay calm. So, I was like, "You're going to have to do the hands-on with him." Um, so it was, it was uh scary at first and it took us a long time to introduce him to the rest of the cats.  

Adrienne Lefebvre:  There were fights, there was some burgling. It was like one step forward, three steps back.  

Jae Kennedy: There was a lot of patience again and he was also the one that took the longest to transition to raw food. But,  it was a beautiful thing. So, we started him on uh when we got him, we had just launched our catcom. So he was kind of like our test case for the product, right? And between that, we watched him be able to slowly move where he felt comfortable going downstairs from upstairs coming out of his space when he was allowed to come out and explore. He didn't for a long time and then and then he would come out a little bit more and come out a little bit more just with the remedy. Um, but then we we spoke to the day we saw him on the stairs though, like like 

Adrienne Lefebvre:  those little baby steps, y'all. Like never underestimate. It was incredible to see him out of his comfort zone and it wasn't just him being out of his comfort zone, the other cats because he would he was a little bit of a swatter. Like you get too close and Yeah.  Um, but just seeing on the stairs that first time was like, "Oh my god, Goober's on the stairs."  Yeah,  he's moving. It was amazing.  

Jae Kennedy:  It was awesome. But then he was also that cat that once he was comfortable, he didn't want to play. And so we had spoken with Dr. Marcy Kossky, a feline behaviorist. And she is the one that taught us if your cat doesn't want to play, they're lying to you.  And we lied. We were like,  we're like this girl, we've tried. I promise you, we've tried. And she taught us what confidence building sessions are. And that is where you take your cat one- on-one. So, when you live in a multi-at household, oftentimes you'll have one cat that doesn't play or a couple cats that  doesn't play because they don't want to play around the other cats. And she said, "Take them into a room by yourself with no other distractions. No phone, no TV, anything like that. Just give them your undivided attention for 15, 20 minutes. Play with a wand toy. get them to slow slow slowly go through that prey sequence where they're hunting, stalking, chasing, pouncing, you know, um and then follow it up with a treat or or a meal. So, they get that kill bite, right? And then and then see what happens. And literally one 15 minute session, it was probably 20 minutes because it took them about five to be like, why are we in this room?  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: What are we doing? 

Adrienne Lefebvre:  But he did play. Dr. CI was exactly right. The years that we tried playing with him and he was like, "No, walk away, whatever." It was just that he was in fact a solitary hunter as cats instinctively are. And did not want to play hunt around the other cats,  right? By himself, no other distractions, full attention. It was like watching magic in front of  

Jae Kennedy: our eyes. It was amazing. In one session, one session, Dr. Ruth, we let him out of that room.  

Adrienne Lefebvre: And you know when you have other cats, they're all at the door like, "Why is the door closing? They're like, "Come on. Come on, man." We were always expecting a confrontation when we opened up the door.  

Jae Kennedy: Yeah. We were really worried about it cuz like she said, anytime a cat walked by him, he was swatting him, he would hiss, he was, you know, and he walked out of that door and all the other cats were like, "What just happened? What just happened?" And he had his head held high,  sat down. He's like, "No big deal." Didn't hiss, didn't swat at anyone. And we were like, "What just happened? I cannot believe this." And it was literally free. It was free.

Adrienne Lefebvre: And from that time like with watching what you know and it's like with people too you know how they say only hurt people hurt people. Um that's kind of the same with cats when they are fearful when something has happened that makes them aggressive or very very withdrawn or very very stressed. It comes out in their personality from that moment. This is why it's the most impactful. I'm sorry, let me just keep rambling about it, but watching him be able to bond with his brothers, watching him be able to feel comfortable in his home, laid out belly up, just  wow,  what a difference. Um, an incredible transformation and all because yeah, we needed help better understanding him and yeah, we did pay for a behavior session that really did give us more tools to give him his best life. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  And that's amazing. And that lesson you can now apply to any other cat that comes into your life. And I think that's a really important thing to remember. Yeah, you're paying to help this one cat out, but you now know so much more.  So that's awesome. But that is incredible to go from not confident to confident and walking in his own power and then the rest of the house is now cool.  Yes. Yeah. the ripple effect of, you know,

Adrienne Lefebvre: the ripple effect of having a super stressed cat and the ripple effect of having a cat that's uh confident and calm. Uh it is, I mean, all family dynamics play off each other, but it's it's it's not something to ignore. Know your cat is stressed. And please don't ignore it. It has more ripple effects, not just, you know, on the health and happiness of that cat, but it's it's a ripple effect. It's just the way energy works. So, um, it's worth the time and effort to try to find the root and better understand and, uh, nurture. Yeah. Nurture calmer energy.  

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Ladies, this has been so much fun. So, before we get off, how can our and where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about your work and your amazing products and solutions? 

Jae Kennedy:  So, um, our website is twocrazycatladies.com  That's twocrazycatladies.com . Uh, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, uh, Tik Tok, YouTube. We try to stay as we have a text number. We try to stay as available as possible to cat parents everywhere. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  You are incredible resources in this world. Jay, Adrian, thank you for all that you do. And if there's one final piece of wisdom that you could spread to our cat parents, what would it be? 

Adrienne Lefebvre: Ah,  mine would never underestimate the power of your advocacy for your own cat. I think that that is a good one.  I think that, you know, it's like one thing to have a relationship with your kitty. It's another thing to really, you know, you're going to have different vets along the way. You're going to have different resources, whether it's people that you're learning stuff from, but you're the one that makes the decisions. You're the one that is your cat's best advocate. And it really does help you. Speaking of resources, what you do and how you help empower pet parents is so incredible because at the end of the day, the decisions that impact our cats we make. We cannot blame someone else for them. We cannot say, "Well, this or that." It's in our hands. Whatever they eat, how happy they are, you know what I mean. I think that our advocacy or that knowing that we are a cat's best and maybe only always advocating is an exciting and impactful thing.  

Jae Kennedy:  Yeah, I agree. Know better, do better, right? I think it's uh I think it's so important for cat parents. I do want to mention one more thing that I forgot um but uh Innovative Pet Lab has just recently come out with a cortisol test for cats. So if  

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  Oh, sweet.  

Jae Kennedy:  Right. So if  you think that or if you're just not sure, here's the thing. You take your cat to the vet and they're going to measure cortisol and it's going to skyrocket, right? Because they're at the vets. Stressful, right? So that's really hard to test. The innovative pet lab testing is from a stool sample so that you can get at home um from your litter box and send it in. And they're doing cortisol testing for cats now. So, if you're worried about it and you don't necessarily know and you want to see is my cat chronically stressed, you can go to uh innovativepetlab.com, I think,  um and uh and get a get an at home test for that, too,  which is super easy. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  Beautiful. Beautiful. That's going to be life-changing for so many parents because then they can quantify,  right, where that stress level is.  Such a Yeah.  Wow. Jay and Adrian, thank you again for your time. Two crazy cat ladies. Go check them out. Help your kiddies out. Thank you.  

Jay & Adrienne: Thank you so much for having us.  Ciao.

Dr. Ruth Roberts:  Thanks for listening to Healing Tales, where pet parents become healers, one tail wag at a time. Want more tools and support? Head to drruthroberts.com. Until next time, trust your gut, question the noise, and keep showing up for your pet.